Vince Neil
Neil in 2010, photo by PrPhotos.com
Birth Name: Vincent Neil Wharton
Place of Birth: Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, United States
Date of Birth: February 8, 1961
Ethnicity: Mexican (3/8ths), English, German, some Scots-Irish/Northern Irish
Vince Neil is an American vocalist and musician. He is a member of heavy metal baand Mötley Crüe, along with Tommy Lee, Nikki Sixx, and, previously, Mick Mars.
Vince is the son of Shirley and Clois Wharton.
Vince has said that his father was of half Native American descent. It is not clear if this Native American ancestry has been verified/documented. Vince may have Indigenous Mexican ancestry through his mother’s Mexican family.
Vince has a daughter with his former wife, mud wrestler and fashion model Sharise Ruddell.
Vince’s paternal grandfather was Ervin Daniel Wharton (the son of Samuel Stewart Wharton and Idora Gray). Ervin was born in Texas. Samuel was the son of Robert Daniel Wharton, who was born in Lancashire, England, and of Mary Jane Grigg. Idora was the daughter of Luther Daniel Gray and Lou Ann Lain.
Vince’s paternal grandmother was Katie/Kate Louella Carroll/Carol (the daughter of George Franklin Carroll and Hattie Pardin/Pardon). Katie was born in Mississippi. George was the son of Joel Green Carroll and Lydia Catherine Redus. Hattie was the daughter of Dallas L./M. Pardin and Mary E. Spuyer.
Vince’s maternal grandfather was John George Ortiz (the son of Felipe Ortiz and Virginia Howard). John was born in New Mexico, of three quarters Mexican descent. Felipe was the son of Ramon Ortiz, who was born in Nuevo México, Mexico, and of Rafaela Chavez. Virginia was the daughter of George H. Howard, who was born in Illinois, of British Isles descent, and of Pauline Apodaca.
Vince’s maternal grandmother was Clara B. Bourguignon (the daughter of Luis Bourguignon and Maria Manuela Gonzales). Clara was born in New Mexico, of three quarters Mexican descent. Luis was the son of Felipe Bourguignon, who was German, and of Maria Tomasa Gonzales. Vince’s great-grandmother Maria was the daughter of Jose Miguel Gonzales and Josefa Lujan.
Sources: Genealogy of Vince Neil – https://www.wikitree.com
Marriage record of Vince’s parents – https://familysearch.org
Genealogy of Vince Neil (focusing on his father’s side) – http://www.geni.com
Vince’s father on the 1940 U.S. Census – https://familysearch.org
Vince’s paternal grandmother, Katie/Kate Louella Carroll/Carol, on the 1920 U.S. Census – https://familysearch.org
How do we know his maternal grandmother was of Mexican descent and had the surname Ortiz? Wouldn’t it be more likely that Ortiz is from his grandfather? Or have I missed something he’s said?
I think this is the case of his mother’s birh record index stating her mother’s maiden name is the same as hers. But I’ve come across this situation many times in the California birth index, and it’s not always true. Sometimes the mother’s maiden name is actually her married name, or even her name from previous marriage. Also, Vince claims his mother is Mexican, so that’s why it says Mexican.
But we don’t have his mother’s birth record, right? At least Manila didn’t find it, as stated in the comment below.
I know he claims Mexican, but I don’t get how we know it’s from his grandmother, and only from her (not, say, from both maternal grandparents).
I didn’t see that comment. I’m on my cell phone, so it’s hard to navigate.
This tree says his mother’s parents were John Ortiz and Clara Bourguignon
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ortiz-1068
They did have a daughter named Shirley Marie Ortiz, born in 1936.
But her birth record is a mess and it doesn’t even have a certain birth date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VL5S-7LV
That Shirley was of 3/4 Mexican, 1/8 British Isles, and 1/8 German (maybe some French too due to Bourguignon) descent.
according to this family tree, Carroll line traces back to Northern Ireland (Carroll is usually an Irish surname indeed) and there’s also a German line: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GMYL-GK9
I suggest to link together the Motley Crue members:
Vince Neil
Nikki Sixx
Tommy Lee
Mick Mars
Thanx
is Native ancestry documented?
He is the son of Clois Odell “Odie” Wharton and Shirley Ortiz.
Vince’s paternal grandparents were Ervin Daniel Wharton (the son of Samuel Stewart Wharton and Idora Gray) and Katie Louella Carroll (the daughter of George F. Carroll and Hattie Pardin).
Sources:
* Genealogy of Vince Neil: http://www.geni.com/people/Vince-Neil/6000000029330891049
* Vince’s birth record: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VLJR-S4N
* Odie’s birth record: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VDGX-BKG
* Odie and Shirley’s marriage record: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VVRB-BQ8
* Odie’s 1940 US Census: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KW2J-LHR
Note: The public record of Shirley Wharton shows that she was born on April 1, 1936. However, I cannot find her birth record. This is her public record: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KYMH-KBR